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Julie Porter- 09-26-2007

I guess I am not being clear. For me building such devices is a hobby. No different than when I build or repair an organ. As I have said all along, anything I do will most likely be for clients in the US. As with organs I build and repair, if a client wants a player, then I can provide one. I do not go out of my way to push player systems on others. If someone on the iMod was repairing or building the same organ I am, I would probably share my experience the same way. On the other side, as those who do build and re-build organs well know, there is not a lot of time. Most of my comments have been addressed to iMOD readers in the US, who might want a cheaper U.S. domestic alternative. As I wrote elsewhere, to sell such a device RoHS compliant in the EU, would cost twice that of what it sells for in the US. I have no intention of competing against the device advertised and reviewed here. If I am not clear, I do recommend it as it looks like the suppliers of it have done a good job to make it simple and usable. The more of these that are sold, the larger the market for them. It seems there is a different culture in the UK regarding self built electronics. I know there are a number of people in Australia, Greece, Ukraine and Latvia who work with this sort of thing. In the U.S. we called this "Yankee engineering." My favorite book is "Trustee from the Toolroom" By Nevil Shute, which told me about the "Model engineering" that happens in the UK. I was delighted to learn that this was a real world, and that there really were people who built models of traction engines, clocks and fairgrounds organs. In my case I became involved with one of the UK clock societies, which still prints practical plans for building complex clocks. The reason I was bringing this up, is to get younger folk interested in how old pneumatic organs can be controlled by simple electronics. Without young people interested, then this whole hobby is for naught. In 2002 I designed a floppydisk file player with this exact same technology. I extended it the following year to work with Compact flash cards. A year or so I did get some SD sockets. On the floppy based project I overbought and still have a lot of parts left over. I tend to think of these parts the same as the new old stock, that one would use when searching for parts to repair an old clock, watch or pipe organ. They are unused and probably have a 200 year lifespan apart from the planned obsolescence. In practice a few other things put my midi filer projects on hold. First was I now use an older laptop which runs Van Bascoes Karaoke player. There is always mains power to run the organ so this works well and has no limitations. In short, at this time, this is the preferred solution. The other was something called the itty-bitty MIDI which works on a palm PDA. Not to mention all the first year college students who are now taught basic mp3 player (iPod) design as a way of introducing embedded systems. As for using an old mobile, My old one did support MIDI. Not sure it had an output line, but the ringtones were stored as MIDI, So there would not be much work to play MIDI on an old Mobile phone, other than to download the MIDI file into it. That is exactly the sort of thing a young person would think of and would not have the inhibition to dismiss. Perhaps I should have put the picture of my organ and the player into the photographs of organs section, rather than the organ building section. Mostly I wanted to show off the organ that I built and the MIDI system, that I also built. As for hidden costs, I did not charge myself for time, that is where the value of these systems is. Yes there are collectors who can pay others for their time. VAT and import duties are something, I will admit I have had no experience with. I do have a lot of experience with software, over 30 years as I started coding when I was 17 years old. I first typed stuff onto punch cards at age 8. I amazes me that there is a whole generation under 25 for whom this stuff has been part of their upbringing. It is these kids and college level students, whom I want to share these details with, to show that such things are possible, and there is nothing to be afraid of. -julie PS: there is an error in one of the above posts that says The 512K of flash memory as one of the designers mentioned has to be shared with the code! This is untrue. The ATMEL AVR processors use "Harvard" architecture. The code and data spaces are separate as in the original MarkI and Univac computers. The 512K data flash on the butterfly board and the data flash on the SD card is for data only and can not contain code. The program memory is limited to the 16K of program flash. -jP

Nick Williams- 09-26-2007

More info on using a cheap old Palm as a MIDI player from media cards from iMOD member David Marks posting on the old FOPS forum... http://www.fops.org/forum/aob/001.htm

Phil Radford- 10-08-2007

Hi to Julie and iMod’s that is following this thread, first thing sorry for my delay on answering just up to the neck in work and that other forum witch I cannot mention here. Yes Julie you are quite correct with the error in one of the above post regarding the 512K of flash memory. Now that was an oversight of mine. I did state it was sent to me by email. I just posted it as it was, maybe I should have proofed it with more care, but then it may have looked as I was the author. Sorry for any confusion. Anyway here is a video of my home built 31-note pipe organ and my midi accordion being run with one of these SD Midi Controllers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkAP0KzUu0M Now for all of you out there that have been following my attempt at a MIDI accordion on YouTube will know it was going to the scrap shed. But my good friend in the video didn’t want to dismantle it just yet and asked if he could build it in to some kind of display box. So I designed one he then built it and now he’s taking it out for the last 3 rallies and the last one being Twinwoods see you all there.

Greg Middleton- 10-09-2007

It is with this in mind that I would like everyone to be fully aware of the costs involved before attempting to build one of these units and for it to meet with all the European RoHS standards. ... In addition I have also double checked the RoHS certificates against every single item used in manufacturing the SD Midi Controller, and I can now confirm 100% Full Compliance. Readers may be interested to know that there is an exemption from the ROHS directive for pipe organs due to the lead used in pipes. Rather than the common sense approach of just exempting the pipes the Commission have chosen to exempt the whole organ which apparently includes its electronics. A quick Google for <ROHS exemption "pipe organ"> will give links. Of course there's nothing stopping you making your controller ROHS compliant, though the tiny amount of lead etc in the solder compared to the pounds of it in a rank of pipes speaks volumes about the ROHS directive, the lead in a car battery compared to the lead removed from the electronics is a similar example. Greg

Phil Radford- 10-18-2007

Well done Greg at last some one is paying attention out there. Yes you are quite correct with exemption from the ROHS for pipe organs. Unfortunately the SD Midi Controller only came to be because Robert And the teem were developing a player piano system which is subjected to ROHS.

Greg Middleton- 10-18-2007

I wasn't aware of the origins of the SD controller Phil, yes if it's intended for other uses it may need to be ROHS compliant, then again it may not: It is after all control equipment by any definition so may well come under Category 9 "Monitoring and control Instrument" which is presently exempt, on the other hand it could be "Part of Another System Outside the Scope of EEE" since an otherwise mechanical player piano is outside the scope. Category 4 "Consumer equipment" does specifically mention musical instruments, but can something as specialist as this be considered consumer equipment?. Deciding if less common place items like this are covered is a nightmare that won't be resolved until -*test*-('")ed in the courts, but to date there has only been one court case and that was settled outside the courts so we are no nearer to answers. It may well be the case that the NWML, that has the job of enforcing ROHS, will never waste it's time resolving such matters when it can concentrate on clear cut cases that are easily solved.

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