Pell organ scales
I wonder if any musically minded folk here can solve a puzzle for me, the Pell 30k scale says "Actual pitch of organ is one whole tone lower" and the 48k says "Pipe organ pitch is 4 semitones lower than keyboard". Why is this done at all, and why should one scale be different from the other?. Do you allow for this when creating music for the organ or ignore it? Greg

Transposing of organ scales is usually done to make the organs smaller than they would be if all the pipes were at standard pitch. Organs are arranged to play music in the "easy" keys such as "C", or "G", but they are usually pitched at 3 semitones sharp, so a "C" pipe would play at D#, and so on. As all notes are relative, you can ignore this difference, unless you are intending to play the organ together with an orchestral instrument. I can't understand why Pell organs are pitched lower than standard. Perhaps Rob Barker could enlighten us. Regards, John

In regards to the Wurlitzer 105, which is also tuned one whole note low, I've heard speculation that it makes the organ sound deeper, and therefore, bigger. I do not know if this is true or not, I got it out of the 105 building plans. However, after transposition, the 105 does have a pretty good sounding bass section for its size.

Wurlitzer Style 157's are tuned a minor third higher as well

Good question. Especially as to why the difference between the 2 scales.

My organ pipes was originally set out to the 31 note Raffin scale, so when note C4 was called for it played the C4 pipe and so on. I didn’t like the sound of the organ so I made a new set of pipes but made them an octave lower so now when C4 is called for it plays C3 and so on. This made the organ obviously deeper and it sounds larger than its size. Upshot is, I still set out the music to the 31 note Raffin scale has is.

Thanks for all the ideas, it does seem to be a bit of a mystery doesn't it. The reason for my interest is that I've recently purchased a Pell 30 key organ built into a lookalike showmans caravan and am hoping to write music for it once I've sorted out a few things. So far I've replaced the snare drum head, glockenspiel mounting rubbers, and re-fixed a couple of pallet magnets that had come adrift. Greg

So Greg your now the new keeper of Dodds organ then.

Hi all, I am building my own organ, I have scratch built the bellows and the pipes but am using the 48 key Pell Midi system to drive it all. It is designed to play Alan's music on channel 1, as usual with notes missing for register activation etc, but on channel 2 (using a John Whale board) it is fully chromatic, ie plays all 49 notes on the keyboard. I have downloaded all sorts of music from the web with varied results, I have yet to get my laptop to export on channel 2 but am told that can be done & I have been promised help. Do I need to transpose the down loaded internet music up 4 semitones so I am playing the notes originally intended by the musician? Sadly I am both tone deaf and without any musical knowledge. I hope I have inserted an image into this page - but have never tried before. Edward

no picture
Hi, Sorry no picture. I did try again. There must be a way of getting it into the main text because others can clearly do it! I hope tapping in or clicking on: http://homepages.tesco.net/~jean.george1/images/6inch-pictures/organ.JPG will access it if you are inerested. The wood is spalted Sycamore and I am told sounds not too bad. I have temorarilly given up on the celest and have tuned it to a meter, which I have found a whole lot easier. The pipes are in inentical pairs except the base ones which have a helper once octave higher. Hope the picture works this time. Edward.

Hi George, As your organ plays 4 semitones flat of standard pitch, you will need to transpose all midi input files UP 4 semitones in order to hear the music in the composer's intended key (assuming the MIDI files are in the correct key to begin with). However, that will only be necessary if you are going to play the organ along with another instrument played by someone reading sheet music. The actual key heard is neither here nor there - all notes are relative to each other, and only someone blessed with "perfect pitch" would tell the difference. BTW: instructions for showing pictures on iMOD can be found here: http://organ.10.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=1885#1885. Regards, John

I came across the organ on Ebay, I called the previous owner the wife and I jumped in the van and set off with cache in pocket. Now has we turned up at the previous owners Dodd was coming out with it. The organ was do to come to me this coming weekend has as arranged by me and Dodd not to keep just to look after it for Dodd has he is now 80 and has decided to retire from rallying the organs. I can tell you that you got a bargain compared to the over all price Dodd shelled out but that’s not open to discussion, anyway well done on your bargain. I hope to see you and your Pell out and about.

Hello everyone, Yes it can be a bit confusing with mechanical organ pitches. Church & theatre organs don't have this problem because they are built to accompany other instruments in any key & they generally have enough room for the pipework. If they are small instruments then they have less ranks of pipework, or don't have big bass pipes. It would be out of the question to have the pipes play different note pitches to the keys. However, mechanical organs are generally built as solo instruments. They are also evolved from instruments designed to play simple folk style popular music (oom pah, etc). Most crucially, because they are portable, or semi portable, they need to be lightweight & compact. Not forgetting the early player systems taking up 75% of the space inside the case. So most mechanical organs are non chromatic, which means not having all the notes of the scale, so they can only play in a few keys. As bass pipes are the largest, they are the first to suffer the designers axe (pencil?) It's much easier to squeeze in 5 bass pipes than the full (at least) 12. You can arrange a lot of music to fit these 5 bass pipes without the tunes sounding too wierd (although thereby lies another discussion). The larger the case, the more pipes you can fit in, so the bigger organs usually have 8 bass pipes, which is much easier to arrange for. The really huge dance organs have the full 12 because they have giant cases (no need to cart them around), the music they are designed to play is also more sophisticated because they were the last instruments to evolve, when popular music was becoming much more complicated. The other way to save space is to raise the pitch of the pipework so the pipes are smaller. Basically an organ can be built to play any set of notes (within reason), as long as the notes have the same gaps between them as the scale dictates. Raising the pitch of the big bass pipes can mean an extra couple of feet of space inside the case for more stuff. The smaller the instrument, generally, the higher the pitch. Although there are exceptions to this rule. So, if the 'traditional standard' (another discussion) bottom melody note of most organ scales is intended to be the G above middle C (easiest to arrange music), then on the largest Pell instruments (65k MIDI, 45 note paper roll), where there is lots of room, it is G (known as actual pitch). On the next size down (48k MIDI, 31 note paper roll), where there is not so much room, it is A# above. On the smaller instruments (30k MIDI, 25 note paper roll), where there really isn't that much space at all, it is C above. They all play the bottom melody note of each organ, but are pitched differently. If you plug a 4 octave MIDI keyboard into one of our MIDI organs, the D above middle C will play this note, as the 48k scale simply fits comfortably on the keyboard in this key! Crazy! It does not matter what key you arrange your music in (within reason), as long as it fits comfortably in your scale. But remember that some tunes just won't fit, no matter what you do. It's easy to be blinded, or rather deafened by ambition. I hope this is of more help than confusion... Cheers, Rob.