1904 North Tonawanda Project Now that I’m back for my final year at University I need something to keep my organ building mind occupied while away from the workshop and in between electronic and electrical engineering lectures!
One project I’m planning through is what to do with a 1904 North Tonawanda Band Organ, still operating on its barrel.
I’m told the organ was made in 1904, though Bowers’ Encyclopaedia states the NT company didn’t start producing these until 1906. Any ideas? An identical machine is illustrated in this publication as the No. 1 or style 37 trumpet band organ. It has 44 keys, though there is space for another two which on the next model up (the No. 2, 46 key machine) would have operated percussion in the form of a drum & cymbal on one key, and a reciprocating snare drum on the other.
This instrument has been in the UK from the 1960s, but was originally shipped from the US to a roller skating rink in Argentina. Its barrel was re-pinned in the 1920s by the Argentina Barrel Organ Museum during the days when it performed commercial organ work. This is quite facinating in itself – the firm was started by the three La Salvia brothers who moved from Italy to Argentina to set up their organ repair shop in 1870, and it’s still going today. More details at the museum website: http://www.organito.com.ar/index_en.htm .
Here are some photos taken last Saturday…
If has anyone got any original photos or illustrations of similar organs in use in their roller skating rinks, I’d love to see them!
In the last few years the instrument had been taken out to a few rallies in the north west of England by its previous owner, so maybe it is familiar to some of you.
The organ is in good condition following a restoration in recent years. There are however a few stuck notes which I’m going to have to attend to (pallet springs inside the chest have probably broken), and boy does it need tuning!!! The oak case needs some refinishing too, and I’m sure I’ll find more jobs as I start working on it. I’d never seen one of these NT / Wurli organs before buying this one not long ago – they’re remarkably loud for their size!
The main problem the organ has at the moment is simply that it is very limited having only the one barrel with just eight tunes, none of which are familiar ones. The mechanical action does let the repetition down too, such that at the moment I don’t consider it a piece presently suitable to perform at an event. This has to change, as I like my instruments to be enjoyed and appreciated by the public, rather than gathering dust!
The solution? Well, I know lots of these in the US were converted to paper roll a long time ago. This one escaped that through being in Argentina I guess, which must make it quite rare to still be on a barrel, so I will be preserving this barrel and mechanism completely as it is. A roll mechanism would be far too intrusive anyway and require a vacuum air supply as well, plus though common in America, there can’t be many Wurli 125 rolls here in England! If I added a key frame this would be just as intrusive and mean severely altering the casework, and the book music would have to be bespoke for the organ.
Therefore, as much as I personally don’t like electronic player systems (particularly on antique organs!), I think the addition of midi is going to be the only way forward. This will show the pipework off to the best of its ability, but by making a midi system which just pushes down on the keys above the push rods, it is entirely removable and the organ play from the barrel any time (to ensure this I want the barrel to remain inside the instrument even when playing on midi).
The scale is 5 flue bass, 3 trombone bass, 9 accompaniment, 14 melody and 13 counter melody (brass trumpets), so aside from the trombones and percussion, this should be the same as the Wurlitzer 125 roll scale. I already have a library of these taken from original Wurlitzer rolls ready, so only the three trombone notes would need to be re-arranged on each to make these fit.
Any comments, suggestions or ideas before I start? Anyone know more history of the instrument, and who had it brought over to the UK?
I was going to use a 64-way John Wale midi board, and an electro magnet above each key. Does anyone know how large the magnets will need to be to operate the keys directly, a good source or particular type I should be using for this? Any photos from examples of barrel to midi conversions?
I’m considering the addition of percussion on this organ too, as per the North Tonawanda model No. 2; any thoughts?
Kindest regards,
Nick
Trevor Johnson- 10-04-2006
1904 North Tonawanda Project Hi Nick,
Congratulations on the la-*test*-('") addition to your collection.
I certainly agree with you 100% that midi is the best way to provide an alternative & very much needed extension to the organs reportoire. It will make it far more attractive to the public & without it I fear you may soon lose your sanity with the same 8 tunes non stop!.
Also, I think that the addition of percussion would be a very wise move.
Good luck with this project.
Best wishes,
Trevor.
Bruce R.Pier- 10-04-2006
I have a collector friend who put a non invasive midi system in an Imhof & Mukle organ. Pretty simple actually, a bank of solonoids mounted on top of the barrel keyframe and a link to the keys. Allows it to play either the barrel or the midi files.
John Page- 10-05-2006
The system is certainly non-invasive for the organ, but you need to consider the shock effect of operating solenoids on a system designed for a gentle pushing up of the keys by pins slowly revolving on a barrel. Is there any way to slow down the actuating speed by, say, pneumatic damping?
I remember making a book-player action for a Wellershaus barrel organ (the one that used to play on the four-abreast gallopers of Peter Webb). The keyframe was mounted on the end of the unit, outside the organ, while the key actuators were pneumatically operated from a relay, all mounted within the space of the original barrel. I've no idea if the system has withstood the -*test*-('") of time, the whereabouts of the organ now is a mystery.
The 62-key Gavioli barrel organ now at Hollycombe was restored with the barrel still in use, but has since been fitted with a solenoid system by Mark Waltham. Here, the solenoids, mounted in place of the barrel, push straight upwards and contact the key tips via hardened and polished steel plungers. I haven't seen the organ for some years, but it would be interesting to find out if the action has suffered any shock damage.
Regards,
John
Nick Williams- 10-05-2006
Very good point John, I hadn’t thought about that.
I’ll certainly be needing to get inside the windchest anyway to repair the stuck notes and possibly overhaul the pallet springs, so whilst there can check the amount of opening room the pallets can take. Hopefully any solenoids will have the same amount of key movement as a barrel pin.
In terms of velocity and thus possible shock damage, maybe something as simple as some felt dampers between each magnet actuator and the key would ease this potential problem? Maybe felt stoppers on the bottom ends of the push rods too, at the point where they enter the windchest. These might help to absorb any impact when the push rods are travelling at their fas-*test*-('"), i.e. while opening the pallets and just before they come to a stop. I'll know more when I've had chance to examine the chest and key action system on this NT organ in detail.
From experience of solenoids in other applications, getting a slow and gradual movement isn’t very practical. Besides, the amount of force they produce varies tremendously according to the position of the armature part away from the energising coil, so to try to damp their travel electronically isn’t really achievable without some form of position feedback into the control loop.
I suppose the best way would be to make a pneumatic action to push the pushrods above the keys, and have these pneumatic motors controlled via standard pallet / chest magnets. But, the original bellows might not have the spare air capacity for this, especially if I were adding percussion as well, and all of a sudden the ‘non intrusive’ midi idea goes out the window!
Howard Kohlbrenner- 10-06-2006
Hello Nick,
The North Tonawanda/Artizan/BAB 46 keyless music roll is the same note scale as the 125 Wurlitzer but has the additional 3 Trombone notes.
Regards,
Howard
Frank Thornton- 12-30-2006
Hello Nick.
I was interested to read about your new project and wondered if the following information is of some use to you.
According to Junchens history of the Wurlitzer,De Kleist had established the North Tonawanda Barrel Organ Works in 1893, and in 1897 he approached H.Wurlitzer with regards to seeking to expand the market
for the brass trumpets used in his band organs,he was interested and gave DeKleist a large order for the Brass trumpets.De Kleist at this time
also tried to interest Wurlitzer in becomeing distibuters for his band organs but H.Wurlitzer declined.
From the way the book reads it appears that the Band organ was in production earlier than the date you have given.There is also a photo
showing the automatic showroom in 1906 showing a band organ like yours.
If you get chance the book is worth a read --it is mainly Theatre organ
information and at around £100 a copy --well !.
I think it was worth every penny.
All for now----Frank.
Bruce R.Pier- 12-30-2006
The North Tonawanda Musical Instrument Works were founded by a group of former De Kleist employees ( Morganti, Tussing and Schulz) when Eugene DeKleist sold the business outright to Wurlitzer. For a brief period the output of both firms were very similar, but by the first World War Wurlitzer was producing a superior product from a technical standpoint. NTMIW's main sales came from the skating rink industry, moreso than the amusement park and traveling show trade. The skating fad had greatly diminshed by this time and eventually the business was sold to the Rand's While they were cheifly interested in the woodworking ability of the company, they did produce a limited number of instruments. Once again Mssrs Morganti, Tussing and Schulz went off on their own and formed the Artizan Factories. The produced a limited quanity of organs (which used pressure tracking instead of vacuum) untill the early 1930's, when they sold the assets to the BAB Organ Co of NYC. This firm was principally a repair firm and used the assets from Artizan in converting book played organs to rolls (which were of their manufacture) They used the NTMIW/Artizan scales for the smaller instruments while using a modified Gavioli scale for the larger ones.
As far as information on American organs Ron Bopp's "The American Carousel Organ" is a more recent history of American band organ builders.
Frank Thornton- 01-01-2007
Hello Bruce.
Does this mean that Nicks organ is not as old as he believes.?
Because according to different sources De Kleist didnt sell outright to Wurlitzer until 1909.I would be interested to know more.
All for now--Frank.
Bruce R.Pier- 01-01-2007
The NTMIW was incorporated in 1906. (I stand corrected on that) It's been documented from conversations with the late Farny Wurlitzer that this was the period in which there were problems with DeKleist. It took an additional two years to negotiate the buyout which occured in late 1908. (The Rudolph Wurlitzer Manufacturing Co. was incorporated on Jan.1, 1909)
The first NTMIW organs weren't produced until 1907. Nicks organ appears to be a Style 37, 44 key scale. The organs with percussion would have two more keys which would play the bass drum/cymbal and snare drum (it appears that the slots for the keys are in the keyframe, but the barrel has no accomadation for the extra keys).
Nick Williams- 01-14-2007
Interesting discussions so far. Yes Bruce, the slots are in the key frame for the additional two percussion keys, but no pins on the barrel for these (N.B. barrel was re-pinned in the 1920s by the La Salvia brothers in Argentina).
Circa 1906 is still the most likely date, though when I strip out the pipes to repair the windchest I hope to find the organ’s serial number which will help in tracing the first owners and a more accurate dating. I need to get at the chest to fix a stuck trombone note, plus also inspect the pallets and add a stop rail to prevent them from opening too far, which will be in preparation for the fully removable non-obtrusive solenoid add on to allow midi operation.
I won’t be dismantling for a few months I expect, but when I do, I’ll be posting more photos of some of the internal parts, which all appear quite original. Once back together I’ll then be doing the most important thing, tuning it! Presently things are way off, with a lot of the trumpets not sounding properly (if at all!), so some delicate reed work ahead.
I don’t think the previous trailer did it any favours there, nor does the ‘volume control’ I found which someone has added – an adjustably covered hole (about an inch in diameter) in the main wind trunking which goes straight to atmosphere! Amazingly with this fully open the bellows are still producing plenty of air to compensate and play the organ, and with an amount of air still spilling out of the over-inflating reservoir. This shows that as well as the bellows working effectively, the present existing motor drive arrangements are perhaps on the hasty side. Hand turning the organ it will play perfectly at half the speed, but not knowing the tunes on the barrel I’ve no ‘right speed’ to go on.
Does anyone know the intended crank rpm of these NT organs? With a midi fitted it’s no problem to get an efficient motorised speed of the crank, but it would be nice to know just what speed the 8 tunes on the barrel should be played at.
I’ve not yet found any other North Tonawanda trumpet organs like this that are still playing on their barrel, nor any other NTMIW instrument in the UK, this one being brought across from Argentina in the 60s.
UK history wise, I found out from Brian Kinsey that he was talking to someone about this organ at Twinwoods 2006 festival, and that person was with Bob Minnie (the restorer) when Bob purchased it from an antiques shop in Brighton. Unfortunately Brian couldn’t remember who it was who told him this, so if anyone does know who it was (a Twinwoods visitor or exhibitor), or can add further details to this provenance, I would be fascinated to hear from them. I really would like to learn as much history as can be found out about this rare machine, as to me it’s equally as important as the organ itself. With that in mind, if anyone can privately forward me contact details of Bob Minnie I would be most grateful.
Kindest regards,
Nick
Nick Williams- 01-15-2007
Further to my comment above regarding crank speed, I am aware that the Wurlitzer 125 roll-player should be 75-80 rpm according to the original factory instruction sheet (see http://mmd.foxtail.com/Tech/Wur125/directions.html).
Size wise this model is similar to my style 37 44-key NTMIW organ, so this value gives a good indication, but if anyone knows the speed that NTMIW specified for its barrel organs I’d be fascinated to know exactly.
Bruce R.Pier- 01-15-2007
I think that the crank speed on the barrel instruments is 60 rpm, as it was intended that they could be hand cranked if need be. The higher crank speed was used on the roll played instruments to insure adequete vacuum for the action. The Vacuum pumps and resesvoirs tended to be a little undersized (IMO) and even on newly rebuilt organs I've seen the higher speed was used .Some of the arragements would really tax the vacuum supply.
Nick Williams- 01-15-2007
Many thanks for that Bruce - 60rpm certainly confirms my thoughts that the present motor setup is too fast!
It hand winds very nicely at this sort of speed, and ultimately causes less wear and tear to the bellows in the long run. With no pneumatic action or percussion to worry about there is certainly no shortage of air from these newly leathered bellows, so with a midi addition it would play at even slower speeds than this (I’ll have to do some timing new time I play it to quote figures on this).
Cheers for now,
Nick
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If has anyone got any original photos or illustrations of similar organs in use in their roller skating rinks, I’d love to see them!
In the last few years the instrument had been taken out to a few rallies in the north west of England by its previous owner, so maybe it is familiar to some of you.
The organ is in good condition following a restoration in recent years. There are however a few stuck notes which I’m going to have to attend to (pallet springs inside the chest have probably broken), and boy does it need tuning!!! The oak case needs some refinishing too, and I’m sure I’ll find more jobs as I start working on it. I’d never seen one of these NT / Wurli organs before buying this one not long ago – they’re remarkably loud for their size!
The main problem the organ has at the moment is simply that it is very limited having only the one barrel with just eight tunes, none of which are familiar ones. The mechanical action does let the repetition down too, such that at the moment I don’t consider it a piece presently suitable to perform at an event. This has to change, as I like my instruments to be enjoyed and appreciated by the public, rather than gathering dust!
The solution? Well, I know lots of these in the US were converted to paper roll a long time ago. This one escaped that through being in Argentina I guess, which must make it quite rare to still be on a barrel, so I will be preserving this barrel and mechanism completely as it is. A roll mechanism would be far too intrusive anyway and require a vacuum air supply as well, plus though common in America, there can’t be many Wurli 125 rolls here in England! If I added a key frame this would be just as intrusive and mean severely altering the casework, and the book music would have to be bespoke for the organ.
Therefore, as much as I personally don’t like electronic player systems (particularly on antique organs!), I think the addition of midi is going to be the only way forward. This will show the pipework off to the best of its ability, but by making a midi system which just pushes down on the keys above the push rods, it is entirely removable and the organ play from the barrel any time (to ensure this I want the barrel to remain inside the instrument even when playing on midi).
The scale is 5 flue bass, 3 trombone bass, 9 accompaniment, 14 melody and 13 counter melody (brass trumpets), so aside from the trombones and percussion, this should be the same as the Wurlitzer 125 roll scale. I already have a library of these taken from original Wurlitzer rolls ready, so only the three trombone notes would need to be re-arranged on each to make these fit.
Any comments, suggestions or ideas before I start? Anyone know more history of the instrument, and who had it brought over to the UK?
I was going to use a 64-way John Wale midi board, and an electro magnet above each key. Does anyone know how large the magnets will need to be to operate the keys directly, a good source or particular type I should be using for this? Any photos from examples of barrel to midi conversions?
I’m considering the addition of percussion on this organ too, as per the North Tonawanda model No. 2; any thoughts?
Kindest regards,
Nick